A Conversation with Dutch Poetess Hannie Rouweler

 

A Conversation with Dutch Poetess Hannie Rouweler

—One of a series of interviews for the quarterly journal Rendition of International Poetry

 

1. As one of the most influential poetesses, writers and translators in the Netherlands at the moment, would you please make a brief self-introduction?

 

- Difficult. I find it difficult to look in my own mirror and talk about it. So I'd rather ask others, my friends, family, fellow poets and even my neighbor, who has an interesting background and knows that I'm busy writing poems every day. Or else translating. In English.

 

2. In the context of globalization, do you think poetry in local languages is being “diluted” by poetry in English or other powerful languages? What’s your opinion on the threat of the “linguistic hegemony” to the diversity of poetry?

 

- Yes, in a sense that is certainly the case. The mother tongue is closest to you. It is self-evident that you write and compose in your mother tongue. Fortunately, there are translators and also very good translation boxes on the internet. As soon as you translate your poems into a foreign language, you have to master it. Errors can creep into a translation, many translators and also translation boxes are not accurate enough. You should not only translate the content, but also adopt the writing style and form of the original poem.

 

3. In this dark era full of conflicts, climate crises and systematic oppression, many poets still indulge in lyrical aesthetics, do you think poetry can still serve as a “healer”? Or is it more of an “anesthetic” that allows people to escape from reality in a sense of illusory beauty?

 

- Yes. That is a personal matter. You can write poetry about anything, that space is given to every poet in every country. Poems are often intended to be therapeutic and are often interpreted as such by readers. But in my opinion you would be better off buying a self-help book for the relevant problems, which are appearing on the market in large numbers. These are manuals for life. They can be very helpful, I personally think that poetry is not for that.

 

4. In your poetry writing career, have you ever encountered strict censorship or great pressure because of certain sensitive themes you express in your poems? How do you balance artistic freedom and social censorship? Does this kind of experience make you give up the themes you focused on and also affect the way of expression?

 

- You should avoid any form of censorship. I don’t like editors at larger publishers, especially those who are crossing out and scratching your work. To get a poetry collection ready for publication. They put too much of a stamp on the publication. It is usually well-intentioned, but it can also be disruptive. Good advice is of course always something you can take to heart, from whoever.

 

5. What’s your view on the impact of AI on poetry creation in the digital era? For example, is the fragmented reading habit stunting the depth and complexity of poetry? When AI algorithms seem to know more about “poetic quality” than human beings, do you worry that poetry will lose its humanity?

 

-They are tools. Nothing more, nothing less. Practical, often analytical. You have to write your texts without it and only use it as an indication or tool. I am certainly not negative about it. Man is not a robot.

 

6. Your poems often contain tones of rebellion, questioning, and even denial. Do you think that poetry itself is an art of “resistance”? Is this “resistance” directed at a specific social reality or a more universal human predicament?

 

- No. The poet can oppose certain phenomena in society. That is excellent. It is and remains artistically responsible.

 

7. In the era of information explosion as well as entertainment orientation, do you think that poetry has been less brilliant and becomes an unpopular or even obsolete art form? What is your attitude towards the prospect of poetry?

 

-Poetry is not dead. Younger generations keep emerging which continue the tradition or follow their own path that deviates from the usual. It is important to keep poetry alive.

 

8. Would you please make a list of twenty outstanding contemporary poets (from your country or other countries) you admire or recognize?

- I read a lot of foreign poems. I don't provide a list of names because I know for sure that I miss many who would deserve it.

 

9. Are you afraid of being forgotten by time (or the audience)? Why?

- No. It is important to put things into perspective.

 

10. Finally, please say a few words to the readers of the Rendition of International Poetry Quarterly (multilingual). At the same time, please attach 4-6 of your representative poems, one brief biography as well as two high-resolution color photos of yourself. Thank you so much.

-Write as much as possible about themes that are close to you. Readers quickly discover whether something is real or fake and very artificial.

 

 

Hannie Rouweler [Netherlands]

Defense of poetry: Language and all her sensitivities

 

Language is the most important means of communication between people—alongside body language and gestures—through which we listen and come to understand each other. This is especially true when we do not share the same native language.

So much can be said about language, with all its complicated inflections and tenses. Poets, however, use language differently: they give it a special dimension. Poetry stands apart precisely because it disrupts our expectations. It deviates from the usual, surprises the reader or listener, and invites them to experience language in new and often profound ways.

Poetry is the mother of all literature. In fact, even other artistic expressions refer back to it—for example, in painting we often speak of a visual language. Again, language lies at the core.

In our present time—where everything seems to be geared toward efficiency, speed, instant communication, and the fleeting nature of headlines and updates—poetry receives less attention. Few people read poems; even fewer buy poetry books. Yet poets should not grieve over this, nor accept it passively. There may be no alternative, but that does not diminish poetry’s value or importance. It is very much alive. How often does a single poem grip someone at a crucial moment? Often, it is in sorrow or grief that we seek out poetry—when ordinary words no longer help, a poem fills that emotional void.

Poets and readers alike must recognize that if anything has been silenced or suppressed over time, it is language itself. The language that was forbidden. The language that could not be spoken. The language that was abolished. The language that was not allowed to exist.

 

 

Profile of the Interviewee

Hannie Rouweler (Netherlands, Goor, 13 June 1951), a famous poetess and translator, has been living in Leusden, the Netherlands since the end of 2012. Before she lived in different places in Holland, she also stayed abroad for a longer period of time.

Her sources of inspiration are nature, love, loss, childhood memories and travel. In 1988 she made her debut with Regendruppels op het water (Raindrops on water). Since then, more than 40 collections of poetry have been published, including translations into foreign languages (Polish, Romanian, Spanish, French, Norwegian, English).

Poems have been translated into about 35 languages. She attended evening classes in painting and art history, art academy (Belgium) for five years. Hannie writes on various topics. ‘Poetry is in the streets, up for grabs’, is an adage for her. She mixes observations from reality with imagination and gives a twist to her feelings and findings. Fantasy and imagination play an important role in her works.

She has received awards from the Netherlands and abroad, e.g. ‘best poet of the year 2021’, from the institute IPTRC voting international executive committee in China.

Hannie Rouweler followed short commercial and language courses at language institutes (Arnhem, Amsterdam, Hasselt BE). She has published several stories (including short thrillers); is an editor of several poetry collections.

 

 

对话荷兰女诗人汉妮·鲁维尔

——《国际诗歌翻译》季刊系列访谈之一

 

1、您作为荷兰当下最具影响力的诗人、作家、翻译家之一，请您做一个简单的自我介绍。

这并不容易。我发现对着镜子进行自我介绍有点难。所以我宁愿问问我的朋友、家人、诗友，甚至我的邻居，因为他们每个人都有着不错的背景，也知道我每天忙着用英语写诗或进行翻译。

 

2、在全球化浪潮下，您是否觉得本土语言的诗歌正在被英语或其他强势语言的诗歌所“稀释”？您如何看待这种“语言霸权”对诗歌多样性的威胁？

是的，从某种意义上说，情况确实如此。你最熟悉母语，所以你用母语进行创作十分正常。幸运的是，互联网上有译员，也有很好的翻译工具。如果你把自己写的诗翻成另一种语言，你就得掌握这门语言。译文中可能会出现一些错误，许多译者以及翻译工具给出的译文可能不够准确。你不仅要翻译内容，还要保留原诗的写作风格和形式。

 

3、在这个充斥着各种冲突、气候危机与系统性压迫的幽暗时代，许多诗人仍然沉迷于抒情美学，您认为诗歌还能扮演“疗愈者”的角色吗？或者说，它更像是“麻醉剂”，让人在虚幻的美感中逃避现实？

没错，这看个人。你可以写任何题材的诗，每个国家的诗人都有这样的创作空间。诗歌往往给人带来慰藉，读者也经常这样解读。但在我看来，你最好去买一本励志书来读，这类书市面上有很多。这些是生活指南，它们可能非常有用，但我个人认为诗歌创作的目的并非如此。

 

4、在您的创作生涯中，是否曾因触及某些敏感题材而遭遇审查或压力？您是如何平衡艺术自由与社会审查的？这种经历是否影响了您的创作主题和表达方式？

你应该避免任何形式的审查。我并不喜欢大型出版社的编辑，尤其是那些给对你的作品进行删改的编辑。为了出版诗集，他们往往会在出版物上留下太多的个人印记。这通常出于好意，但也破坏了我的原创。当然，你总会记住好的建议，不管是谁提出来的。

 

5、您如何看待人工智能数字化时代对诗歌创作的冲击？譬如，“碎片化”的阅读习惯，是否正在“矮化”诗歌的深度和复杂性？当AI算法比人类似乎更懂“诗意”，您是否担忧诗歌失去其人文性？

它们只是工具，仅此而已。很实用，且通常分析得有道理。你创作时必须首先依靠自己，再参考它的提示或当作工具。当然，我并不是要否定它，人毕竟不是机器。

 

6、您的诗歌中常常出现一些反叛、质疑甚至否定的声音。您是否认为诗歌本质上就是一种“反抗”的艺术？这种“反抗”针对的是特定的社会现实，还是更普遍的人类困境？

我不这么想。诗人可以对社会上的某些现象提出反对意见，这样挺好。这也是为艺术负责的表现。

 

7、在当今这个信息爆炸、娱乐至死的时代，您是否认为，诗歌已经失去了它原有的光环，变成了“小众”的、甚至是“过时”的艺术形式？您对诗歌的未来发展持怎样的态度？

诗歌并未消亡。年轻一代诗人不断涌现，他们要么延续传统，要么不走寻常路。让诗歌保持活力非常重要。

 

8、请您提供您所推崇或认可的二十位当代优秀诗人名单（可以是您所在国家的，也可以是其他国家的在世诗人）。

我读过很多外国诗歌。至于哪些优秀诗人，我就不一一例举了，因为我确信自己会漏掉不少人。

 

9、请问您害怕被时间（或受众）所遗忘吗？为什么？

不会，重要的是得理性看待事物。

 

10、最后，请您对混语版《国际诗歌翻译》季刊的读者说几句话。同时，请附上您的代表性诗作4—6首、小传和高像素彩照二帧。非常感谢！

尽可能多写与自己密切相关的主题。读者很快会发现有些内容是真的还是假的，胡编乱造的。

 

汉妮·鲁维尔 [荷兰]

诗辩：语言及其敏感性

 

语言是人与人之间最重要的交流方式——除了肢体语言和手势——我们通过聆听语言进而了解彼此。当我们使用不同的母语时，尤为如此。

有关语言复杂的屈折变化和时态，我们可以谈很多。然而，诗人运用语言的方式有所不同：他们赋予语言一个特殊的维度。诗歌之所以与众不同，正是因为它打破了我们的期望。它打破常规，惊艳了读者或听众，并以全新的、往往是深刻的方式让他们感受到语言的魅力。

诗歌是一切文学之源。事实上，即使是其他艺术表现形式到头来还会以此作为参考——例如，在绘画中，我们经常提到视觉语言。这再次证明，语言乃其核心。

在这个似乎一切都讲究效率、速度、即时通讯以及头条和快讯铺天盖地的时代，人们对诗歌的关注度有所下降。读诗的很少，买诗集的人就更少了。然而，诗人不要为此感到难过，也不要被动地接受它。或许我们没有办法改变这一事实，但这并不会降低诗歌的价值或重要性。诗歌是有生命力的。一首诗是怎样让人在重要时刻破防？通常，我们伤心或悲痛时会向诗歌寻求慰藉——当普通的词语不再管用，一首诗可以填补这份情感中的空白。

诗人和读者都必须清楚一点：随着时间的推移，如果有什么事物而销声匿迹或被压制，那就是语言本身，一种被禁的语言，无声的语言，废弃的语言，更是不允许存在的语言。

                      (伍敏毓 译；Tr. Wu Minyu)

 

 

受访者简介

汉妮·鲁维尔（Hannie Rouweler，1951年6月13日出生于荷兰霍尔），著名女诗人兼翻译家，曾在国外生活多年。自2021年底起，一直居住在荷兰的勒斯登。

她的创作灵感来源于大自然、爱、过往、童年记忆和旅行。1988年，她的首部作品《水面上的雨点》（Regendruppels op het water）问世。自此，她已出版了40多部诗集，包括外文译本（波兰语、罗马尼亚语、西班牙语、法语、挪威语、英语等）。

其诗已被译成约35种语言。与此同时，她在比利时一家艺术学院上了五年夜校，攻读绘画与艺术史。汉妮的写作题材多种多样。“诗就在街上，随手可得”是她的格言。她将现实中的观察与想象相结合，并将自己的感受和发现加以曲折化。幻想和想象在她的作品中扮演着重要的角色。

她斩获了来自荷兰和国外的诸多奖项，譬如：国际诗歌翻译研究中心国际执行委员会票决颁发的“2021年度最佳诗人”。

汉妮·鲁维尔曾在多所语言学院（阿纳姆、阿姆斯特丹，比利时的哈塞尔特）参与商务和语言短期课程的学习。她发表过几篇小说（包括短篇惊悚小说），同时还担任过多部诗歌选集的编辑。